Comments on: Granny rape - time for D to pick up the bill? http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/ A barrister gossips & rants on intellectual property law, the legal system and civil liberties. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:46:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Punning linguist http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-19281 Punning linguist Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:03:31 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-19281 Scratch that, have an <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldjudgmt/jd080130/hoare-1.htm" rel="nofollow">authoritative source</a> Scratch that, have an authoritative source

]]> By: Punning linguist http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-19280 Punning linguist Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:46:23 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-19280 Seen today's <a href="http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3273570.ece" rel="nofollow">Times</a>? Seen today’s Times?

]]> By: Geeklawyer http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18225 Geeklawyer Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:22:13 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18225 Thanks for a better informed comment VM. Thanks for a better informed comment VM.

]]> By: VM http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18185 VM Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:30:49 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18185 Dear Jack, The way in which <i>limitation</i> works in a criminal case is <i>designed</i> to deal with the individual case. If a particular Defendant <i>cannot</i> have a fair trial because, for <i>example</i> of the lapse of time and its effect on <i>memory</i> and <i>witnesses</i> then the Judge is entitled to <i>stay</i> the case. The <i>policy</i> presupposes that the public interest lies in <i>prosecuting</i>, as Mr Greeklawyer has said. As a matter of public <i>policy</i> Parliament has decided that <i>Civil</i> cases should be the subject of an <i>overall</i> rule that no case hsould proceed after a set time (that time depending on the precise <i>nature</i> of the case) with the ability for the Court to make <i>limited</i> exceptions in the interests of justice. In other words, the <i>mirror image</i> of the criminal jurisdiction. One can <i>disagree</i> with the specifics, but I do think that the system is, on the whole, <i>fair</i>. Regards, VM Dear Jack,

The way in which limitation works in a criminal case is designed to deal with the individual case. If a particular Defendant cannot have a fair trial because, for example of the lapse of time and its effect on memory and witnesses then the Judge is entitled to stay the case. The policy presupposes that the public interest lies in prosecuting, as Mr Greeklawyer has said.

As a matter of public policy Parliament has decided that Civil cases should be the subject of an overall rule that no case hsould proceed after a set time (that time depending on the precise nature of the case) with the ability for the Court to make limited exceptions in the interests of justice. In other words, the mirror image of the criminal jurisdiction.

One can disagree with the specifics, but I do think that the system is, on the whole, fair.

Regards,

VM

]]> By: james c http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18182 james c Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:50:57 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18182 Would she be liable for costs if she lost? Would she be liable for costs if she lost?

]]> By: Geeklawyer http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18181 Geeklawyer Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:46:42 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18181 It's a good point Jack and in many jurisdictions there is a limitation period which varies with the seriousness of the offence: shoplifting may have a period of 3 years while murder may not have a limitation. I'm not familiar with the reasons for the difference and I can't be arsed to research it but I suppose it's a moral thing: crime is really bad and affects everyone plus it would be unacceptable to the Daily Mail. In a civil matter only one person gets screwed; forcibly in Mrs A's case. I would also suppose that in the case of crime the CPS would act as a filter where the facts are so old that a fair trial wouldn't be possible (or is that a civil practitioner being comically naive?) It’s a good point Jack and in many jurisdictions there is a limitation period which varies with the seriousness of the offence: shoplifting may have a period of 3 years while murder may not have a limitation.

I’m not familiar with the reasons for the difference and I can’t be arsed to research it but I suppose it’s a moral thing: crime is really bad and affects everyone plus it would be unacceptable to the Daily Mail. In a civil matter only one person gets screwed; forcibly in Mrs A’s case.

I would also suppose that in the case of crime the CPS would act as a filter where the facts are so old that a fair trial wouldn’t be possible (or is that a civil practitioner being comically naive?)

]]> By: Jack http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18180 Jack Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:17:26 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18180 >Likewise, the 6 year limit is a limit for a good purpose. A defendant is entitled to raise a fair defence, which necessarily entails frail human memory and a documentary trail. If that's correct, why isn't there a statute of limitations for criminal cases? Human frailty isn't any less of an issue when a crime has been committed is it? Either a statute of limitations should apply to all cases, if indeed it is fair, or not at all. >Likewise, the 6 year limit is a limit for a good purpose. A defendant is entitled to raise a fair defence, which necessarily entails frail human memory and a documentary trail.

If that’s correct, why isn’t there a statute of limitations for criminal cases? Human frailty isn’t any less of an issue when a crime has been committed is it?

Either a statute of limitations should apply to all cases, if indeed it is fair, or not at all.

]]> By: Geeklawyer http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18179 Geeklawyer Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:24:03 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18179 james: I'd be a bit surprised if she was paying, or paying much. It smells of pro-bono work to me. james: I’d be a bit surprised if she was paying, or paying much. It smells of pro-bono work to me.

]]> By: Geeklawyer http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18178 Geeklawyer Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:23:10 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18178 Generally, you can attach against earning or property - the difficulty is that he probably lived in council property so attaching against property wouldn't work; and the jail sentence would mean no earnings for the next X years, so you'd need a conditional order of some sort staying attachment until his release from prison. Would a court make such an order? I'd think it would run the risk of the court saying 'no' on the basis that it was, at that stage, no more than an ineffective gesture and/or unreasonable to the Defendant (though he'd be lucky to get that sympathy in most civil courts). Not sure though as I've never come across a similar situation myself. Generally, you can attach against earning or property - the difficulty is that he probably lived in council property so attaching against property wouldn’t work; and the jail sentence would mean no earnings for the next X years, so you’d need a conditional order of some sort staying attachment until his release from prison. Would a court make such an order? I’d think it would run the risk of the court saying ‘no’ on the basis that it was, at that stage, no more than an ineffective gesture and/or unreasonable to the Defendant (though he’d be lucky to get that sympathy in most civil courts). Not sure though as I’ve never come across a similar situation myself.

]]> By: james c http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18177 james c Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:47:46 +0000 http://blog.geeklawyer.org/2007/11/05/granny-rape-time-for-d-to-pick-up-the-bill/#comment-18177 Nice work for the lawyers-I hope this unfortunate woman isn't paying them. Nice work for the lawyers-I hope this unfortunate woman isn’t paying them.

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